hello there guys and galls.

At the moment i'm planning my first injectable cycle. I have done quite a few cycles of pro-hormones and the OTC designer steroids like superdrol and ergomax but i kinow that long term lots of oral cycles is a bad plan.

I have decided not to go with test. Two reasons for that. 1,i am very prone to acne. I get acne even when i'm not taking anything. 2, when i used the prohormone 4-AD i noticed some hair loss. 4-AD converts to test so i'm thinking that test makes my hair fall out which i don't want.

So, after a lot of reading, i have come up with primo and deca as good choices for gaining with less androgenic sides. But, as usual there are things i don't know so could do with some pointers.

1, what dose would be good for each med, assuming i'm doing a stack of the two?

2, what supplies do i need to get in in case i need to combat estrogenic sides from the deca?

3, with these meds, how often do i need to jab it? I've seen a few places that deca is ok once per week but never seen a recommendation for primo.

BTW, my goal is lean muscle gain. ie, get big without getting fat.

Oh, and here's my stats, what i know of them...
age, 30
weight, 215lb
fat, not sure, can see the line between my abs and obliques but can't see a six pack.
years training 6
years training properly 4
diet, clean. high protein-medium carbs/fat
cycle history, 2 superdrol cycles, 3 ergomax cycles 2 of them with other ph added (M-Dien, MDHT, 1-test)

I understand PCT with clomid and nolva so assume that is ok.

Thankyou in advance for any help.

hey bor. welcome to the board. there are some problems with your cycle.
have you ever heard of deca dick? this is when you become impotent because the amount of deca you are using is greater than the amount of test you are using. in your case, you are planning on using no test which means the deca will shut you down, your body will not be producing any test and you will not be adding test so quess what happens next?
thats right, you become impotent. also low test levels result in depression and oh yeah, deca causes acne as well. instead of going through all of this, why not add some test and just get some acne medicine.

Also don't worry about the hair loss. If you are prone to it like I am, then either run propecia or proscar (which are the same, just different doses).
I used to stress out about losing my hair on steroids, but notice that people ususally don't look at me any higher than my chest!

Also you are going to see that everyone will tell you to run test. It is a staple for any cycle, and like hatfield said without it you'll be impotent an looking for buildings to jump off of.

just a quick note. If any sides occur from deca they will most likely be due to progesterone and not estrogen. U dont want to be taking nolvadex when taking a 19-nor-testosterone derivative. it may actually antagonize your progesterone levels.

Use Cabaser(dostinex) if you need any ancillaries at all for a deca primo cycle. U sure as shit shouldnt for the primo.

i can relate to your situation bro. My skin is crazy too. But on the lighter side of things, the acne youll get from test(if you do), wont be on your face where its most agonizing. Itll be all over ur body just tryin to make u worry a little less with some lightness.

edit: i would recommend you chance it with test tho. The results will be so much better. Especially mentally and emotionally.

Thanks for the help guys.

I'll look at getting some test then.

I wanted to just run 800mg of primo but the price on that badboy is too much for this fella.

I tend to get acne on the top of my back and on my neck when i get it so wasn't too worried about the old boat race. It's just that i wear white shirts at work and when they pop i get blood and puss marks on them. Sorry for being so gross. lol. I have a load of acne antibiotics prescribed so maybe i should just use them. Sheesh what a whiner i am...

stavross wrote:Thanks for the help guys.

I'll look at getting some test then.

I wanted to just run 800mg of primo but the price on that badboy is too much for this fella.

I tend to get acne on the top of my back and on my neck when i get it so wasn't too worried about the old boat race. It's just that i wear white shirts at work and when they pop i get blood and puss marks on them. Sorry for being so gross. lol. I have a load of acne antibiotics prescribed so maybe i should just use them. Sheesh what a whiner i am...

You are not a whiner bro, i would not want that shit happening to me at work either.But seriously get some test in this cycle, you will thank us later.Even if it is just a low dose of 200-250mg/wk, get it in there and stay healthy.

I get less acne on cycle and I run high doses of test usualy over a gram a week. I would not run a cycle without test It should be the base for a cycle IMO.

MR .T wrote:I get less acne on cycle and I run high doses of test usualy over a gram a week. I would not run a cycle without test It should be the base for a cycle IMO.

That's interesting mate. That's a lot of test.


so, i can't get primo like i planned (can't afford it) so i'm going with the deca/d-bol stack instead. What do you guys think of these doses...


1-12, deca 275mg (nandroxyl)
1-12test c. (testoxyl c)
1-6 d-bol 20-30mg/d(dianoxyl)

PCT, clomid. day 1, 150mg. day2-11, 100mg. day 12-21, 50mg.

Should i get some proviron to run right through?

Should i get some Cabaser (dostinex) just in case i need it?

Thanks for the help.

How much test will you be doing.
For PCT, there's no need to taper the clomid dose. Just run it for 3-4 weeks at 100mg per day.
I think that Proviron will help solidify the gains that you make and may help with some gyno, but my choice for an AI would either be Aromasin or Arimidex. Both are good for gyno and water retention.
As far as cabaser, you should get that and run it every 3-4 days at .5mg. This will help with prolactin gyno from the deca and will keep up your libido.

IMHO the doses should not be less than 500mg test 400mg deca. I cant see much problems at those doses. Prolactin should not be a problem. Id keep nolva on hand for if gyno symptoms show up.