Ok first before anyone jumps to conclusions im not planning some insain stack of orals

Anyways, this is my first post(have done a fair amount of research tho)....im not a hard core lifter and in fact have a real problem working out consitantly...at no where near my genetic potential probably. Im very weary of any liver dmg and shutting down my own test production, cant get to big to fast (dont want certain people to get to suspicious)...and im not looking to get huge, so please keep all that in mind as you read the rest of this and if you bother to reply (and if u do thx)

About 3-4 years ago i did a cycle of 50mg anavar for about 5-6 weeks, just working out in my home. Wanted to put on a lil size cuz i was scrawny and a lil flabby (but most would say i was skinny)....so after the cycle i'd lost about 5% body fat and put on 7-10lbs of muscle. Was very happy with the results cuz i wasnt lookin to get huge just look better and be in better shape. For the first time in my life i had an actual chest The anavar also showed me results fast enough that it kept me working out those weeks and even beyond. BTW i also started to do injectables but quickly realized it was just to much of a hassle for me, especially considering what my goals were.

Eventually my resolve wavered and i stopped working out regularly...and the last few years have started and stopped repeatedly. I've managed to hold about half the size gains but put much of the fat back on (though im still scrawny), and that chest is almost gone ;( Was very impressed by how well the gains from anavar stuck though to this day.

So im 29 now and planning on doing a repeat to atleast get me back to where i was...but the prices here are nice, and im makin good money so im thinking of doing the anavar ofcourse but was also thinking of adding the Methanabol to it and maybe some proviron. I want to avoid excessive bloating also.

Here is my plan....Starting with Methanabol doing about 15mg of the 10mg x 100tabs, and then shifting to the anavar when that runs out and possibly doing the proviron so that it lasts into the first week of the anavar part of the cycle. Or would it be better to do it at end of cycle?

My question is if i do this will the anavar compensate for any lowered test production after the Methanabol, and even if it does, do you all think i'd need some ancillary after the cycle to re up my test production? (i didnt when i did just the anavar alone) My plan was to do atleast 30mg of anavar a day for around 6 weeks. Im hoping that by doing it this way the Methanabol will give me a jump start but the anavar will give me gains that stick while negating any shut down of my natural test and the need or clomid/novadex etc... And thought the proviron might help with all that if it was in there somewhere.

I know this is kinda a sissy cycle compared to what most here probably do, but my goals are different. I'd appreciate feedback/thoughts though keeping my goals in mind ofcourse.

Also in a side note, i live in a trailor park where packages through u.s mail are put in a seperate box.....kinda like at apartments, any extra concerns/issues with a delivery like that?

Well, thx in advance

I dont want to sound mean but I think u need alittle more research..

also if you dont train consistantly and arent training for any kind of sport..and just want to enhance your physique I dont recommend steroids.

I wouldnt run that cycle...(I have pondered my self about a dbol and winny but hell no)

do one or the other.

I think if u are dead set on doing a oral only and want to include dbol and var use tbol....everyone says tbol seems to be like a mix of the two. also it will cost u alot less.

what do u have for PCT?

What do you suggest i research? (wait doesnt asking my questions here count as research?) BTW if that had a "Tone" it wasnt meant to.

My hope was to avoid pct by using the Methanabol, then anavar in sequence and in low dosages. OR use the proviron as pct if not during the transition from Methanabol to anavar. Seeing as i needed no PCT after the anavar alone before. So basically im wondering if useing the anavar kind of as bridge between Methanabol and my post training would allow me to get away with no pct again, and would proviron during the Methanabol /anavar transition help? or would that be best left for pct? and if so would it be adequate pct?

While im not training for a sport, several years of starting and stoping regular workouts isnt getting me anywhere, and the one time i was able to sustain a regular work out was when i was seeing results faster with a low dose mild anabolic. I managed to hold most of those gains for quite awhile. It was the lil push i needed to keep me at it. I realize ideally i would have the self dicipline to maintain my workout and reach my goals with out the aid of an anabolic, but i've been unable to.

So my choices are to stay as i am, and/or hope i eventually aquire that discipline or do what worked for me before and use a very mild anabolic to get me back to where i was or better. Plus once im back there maybe this time i'll be better at keeping myself there or advancing with out anabolic aid. Fear of loosing what i had gained is what kept me motivated enough to keep it for as long as i did, and why i still have a little left

Am i wrong that anavar in low dosages doesnt usually shut down natural test production? And that doing the Methanabol though more liver toxic, wouldnt be extremely risky at such a low dose and duration...especially since i dont plan on doing it multiple times a year over many years.

I didnt see tbol listed or else i definately would have considered it. Also price is somewhat an issue, and the Methanabol was cheap.

So anyways i know my own weaknesses and am trying to work around them while balancing the risk vs reward of it all.

Anavar will still shut down HPTA, though it is minimal.

I have tried all of the compounds you mentioned so far...I actually prefer the Turanabol over the Dbol and Anavar...its actually a similar combo to taking the two. My blood work is good and sides are non-existent for the short term.

Dmarksvr wrote:What do you suggest i research? (wait doesnt asking my questions here count as research?) BTW if that had a "Tone" it wasnt meant to.

My hope was to avoid pct by using the Methanabol, then anavar in sequence and in low dosages. OR use the proviron as pct if not during the transition from Methanabol to anavar. Seeing as i needed no PCT after the anavar alone before. So basically im wondering if useing the anavar kind of as bridge between Methanabol and my post training would allow me to get away with no pct again, and would proviron during the Methanabol /anavar transition help? or would that be best left for pct? and if so would it be adequate pct?

While im not training for a sport, several years of starting and stoping regular workouts isnt getting me anywhere, and the one time i was able to sustain a regular work out was when i was seeing results faster with a low dose mild anabolic. I managed to hold most of those gains for quite awhile. It was the lil push i needed to keep me at it. I realize ideally i would have the self dicipline to maintain my workout and reach my goals with out the aid of an anabolic, but i've been unable to.

So my choices are to stay as i am, and/or hope i eventually aquire that discipline or do what worked for me before and use a very mild anabolic to get me back to where i was or better. Plus once im back there maybe this time i'll be better at keeping myself there or advancing with out anabolic aid. Fear of loosing what i had gained is what kept me motivated enough to keep it for as long as i did, and why i still have a little left

Am i wrong that anavar in low dosages doesnt usually shut down natural test production? And that doing the Methanabol though more liver toxic, wouldnt be extremely risky at such a low dose and duration...especially since i dont plan on doing it multiple times a year over many years.

I didnt see tbol listed or else i definately would have considered it. Also price is somewhat an issue, and the Methanabol was cheap.

So anyways i know my own weaknesses and am trying to work around them while balancing the risk vs reward of it all.

bro atleast invest $14 extra and buy 2 boxes of clomid. ur test levels could take up to 7months to go back to normal without PCT.

also proviron can shut u down to a certain extent.......asking questions isnt research research is when u go research as much as u can then after not being able to find anything about it ask...just to clear that up.

I am done with this thread.....u need some TEST in there!!!

Good luck with that sex drive.
THEHULK

Hey bro

Both the d-bol and var will shut you down some as all steroids will, the proviron will aid you during the cycle but will not help recover your natural test levels.
T-bol is your best option as stated above, its like a d-bol without the bloat. There is very low conversion rate so gyno should not be an issue as well. I always recoment doing a pct for any and every cycle you can use nolvadex and
tribulas witch is over the counter in any gnc the pct should be 3 weeks and start the day after your last tbol dose.

40mg nolva for 7 days
30mg nolva for 7 days
20mg nolva for 7 days

run the trib starting the 5th week of the cycle at 5g a day until 3 weeks after your pct has completed. this is simple effective and cheep. The tbol needs to be ran at 50mg a day for 8 to 10 weeks, I would also advise using a liver protectant like liv52 or milk thistle along with it. I do not usually recomend using any steroid to someone who is not very dedicated becasue there realy is no reason for it, why put the stress on your body and mind if this is not a way of life for you, Its just my .02. However I will always give the safest info to help anyone out becasue we are all going to to what we want to do inthe end.

thanks

I put this in the profile section a few days ago. As the others have stated Var and even primo will shut you down. As suggested I would read more on individual compounds and ask questions.
NTG

Anavar 101

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Everything you need to know about Anavar
Note: BSD did not write this article but was unable to find out who did. I thought it was a very good read.

MYTHS

Myth #1 - Anavar will not suppress the HPTA.
False. Anavar, used in adequate dosages, will shut you down. To what degree you experience side effects of suppression (loss of libido, lethargy) is entirely dependent upon the individual and the dosages used.

Myth #2 - Var is a weak anabolic, and is not effective unless stacked with a more androgenic compound.
This could not be further from the truth. At dosages of 40mg a day and higher, anavar is incredibly effective at adding water free LBM. At around day 6-7, increased vascularity should become apparent (assuming your oxandrolone is legitimate in its dosing), and strength gains should start appearing around day 14.
If used during a clean bulk, gains of 10-20 pounds are possible. If cutting, you will maintain weight, or even put on 5-10 pounds (depending on the rate of fat loss/severity of diet). You will keep all of your gains with proper PCT.

Myth #3 - Anavar will not require any type of PCT.
This is one ive never understood. It's a pretty commonly known fact now that var is a suppressive compound. So why is it that some individuals still refuse to make a small investment in some clomid/nolva....this is your testicular function we're talking about. That said, PCT required for var is not as "heavy" as PCT for, say, a test/eq cycle. 15-20 days @ 50mg clomid should be sufficient.


LIBIDO

The only real issue of concern that i have found when running anavar alone is slight libido suppression. Anavar is suppressive enough to where you WILL feel a difference in your sex drive (and not for the better ) when using 40+mg a day. There are three options to counteract this.

#1 - Tribulus + Avena Sativa - Trib at 4-7g a day and Avena Sativa at 3-4g a day tend to help prevent any loss in performance or ability to get it up. However, using effective dosages is going to end up being as or more expensive than options 2 or 3...but its your call.

#2 - Proviron - If hairloss is an issue in your choice to use anavar, then you may want to avoid this one. But 25mg ED proviron, starting after week 2, will keep you rock hard. And it will help to harden up your muscles too .

#3 - Maintenance Test Dosage - Finally, you could choose to use testosterone to keep your willy in shape. At a dosage of around 200mg, split bi weekly, everything should keep running smoothly. Also, this will contribute to your gains much moreso than than options 1 or 2. I would keep nolva onhand on the off chance that you are severely gyno prone. Bloating should not be an issue at this dosage.

BENEFITS

Anavar is a badass drug. This is why.

#1 - Vascularity
Oxandrolone will make you veiny as all hell. And quickly. Look out for brand new bulging forearms veins by around day 6. If you are following a cutting regimen, expect new spider webs in your chest, shoulders and quads by around day 21.

#2 - Pumps
When on var, the pumps are constant. Bored sitting in class/at work? Do some unweighted calf raises. After about three minutes, your calves will be ready to pop. Youll be doing something like drinking a cup of water, and after a minute of holding it, your bi will be completely full and pumped. You may have to cut some sets short in the gym due to the painful pumpage.

#3 - Strength
Even when cutting, you can expect new strength gains every workout after about day 14-21.

#4 - Fat Loss
Anavar has been shown to contribute to accelerated fat loss in both subcutaneous and visceral fat, concentrated effects in the abdomen and thigh area. And if youve used the drug, you can attest to this...if you cant sport the 6-8 pack look on var, its not gonna happen .

CYCLE

Anavar should be run @ at least 40mg a day to see all of the benefits it offers. Dosages upwards of 80mg have been shown to exhibit diminishing returns. Also, i cant imagine the intensity of the pumps at that kind of dosage.

Cycle #1
Anavar 40-50mg ED Weeks 1-8
Tribulus 5-8g ED Weeks 1-12
Avena Sativa 2-4g ED Weeks 1-12
Clomid 50mg ED Weeks 9-11

Cycle #2
Anavar 40-50mg ED Weeks 1-8
Proviron 25mg ED Weeks 3-8
Clomid 50mg ED Weeks 9-11

Cycle #3
Anavar 40-50mg ED Weeks 1-8
Test Prop 50mg EOD Weeks 1-8
Clomid 50mg ED Weeks 9-11

If bulking, Test Enanthate could be substituted for prop, and 100mg could be injected every 3-4 days...however, this could cause more bloating, and complicate PCT timing.

LIVER PROTECTION

Anavar is a 17 Alpha Alkylated steroid, and is toxic. It has been shown to be less toxic than other orals, and is even used as liver treatment for recovering alcoholics. Still, i would limit my time using it to 8 weeks, 10 at the most.

It would be beneficial to you liver to use several different OTC supplements during, and perhaps after your cycle. A few preventive measures never hurt anyone .

1 - Milk Thistle
The classic liver protectant herb.supposedly works by blocking the entrance of harmful substances to liver cells, and hastening their expulsion. Make sure there is a high standardization of Silymarin

2 - R ALA
A powerful antioxidant

3 - NAC
Supports liver function and production of l-glutathione

4 - Vitamin C and E
Antioxidants

5 - LOADS of water
Helps to flush out your entire system

LIPID PROTECTION

Anavar isnt going to kill your cholesterol levels like some drugs (winny being one of the worst), but it may put your LDL/HDL profiles outside of the normal range. There are a few things that help, but as long as your not using 60+mg daily or running it for more than 10 weeks, i would just use flax...

1 - Flax Oil
Consuming lots of omega fatty acids promotes overall health, as well as helping to keep your lipid profile from becoming too bad.

2 - Policosanol
Used at 20mg daily to keep your HDL (good cholesterol) levels from crashing, and your LDL from becoming too high.

3 - Niacin
Preferably the flush free variety. If you wish, niacin can be used at 1-2g ED for a short period post-cycle to normalize HDL levels. Do not use for more than 7-14 days, as liver toxicity can be an issue when using those dosages of niacin for long periods of tim
__________________
From WCBB and PM

If you are dead set on this definately the t-bol as from your posts you seem to carry fat easily, d-bol will really add alot of fat, and anavar is very expensive. As already stated there is little purpose in using steroids if you are not committed to this lifestyle, if you can't train consistantly without steroids then what hope do you have with them, you can't stay on forever. I think your looking for an easy road, but in improving your body there isn't one, they will only be temporary short term gains. Again if your dead set to use steroids then t-bol is the way to go, of course pct just to make sure everything gets working right post cycle as DK already stated. Before using any drugs you should clearly define what your goals are, if you only want a slight improvement you will get that from regular training and a good diet!

You have a problem working out consistantly? That comment alone tells me you shouldn't be touching any steroids, learn how to lift and eat correctly, you can meet your goals naturally.

i agree with chaps 100 %.if you have a hard time getting motivated then aas are not for you.you must remember when you go on gear to train with as much intensity and drive as you can so you maximize your gains.think about this if you have trouble getting motivated just to work out what the heck are you going to do when it comes to your diet? this is more important than the aas.welcome to the board bro were here to help but i think you must revisit your thoughts!!

Ntg That Was A Very Good Article On Var Thanks For That

Welcome Dmarksvr

I agree with what DK said 100% so follow what he said... On a positive note,,, steroids can be motivational and get you motivated to workout when you see results and for this reason I hope when you do this cycle you can keep motivated to stay in shape... You can transform your body but to do it you must be consistant with diet, cardio and working out...

The steroids can make you strong very fast so take it easy cause your body isn't used to working out... Keep your reps in the 8-12 range and dont do crazy things like trying to do your best 1 time max rep cause you can get hurt...

TANK828 wrote:Ntg That Was A Very Good Article On Var Thanks For That

Word   ...............

First thank you to those that have replied so far, especially the ones that actually attempted to address some of my questions and not just lay the "steroids arent for you" rap on me.

As far as the research i've done, back before i ever did the original cycle of anavar, i read many sites, bbs, and looked at a ton of drug profiles of not just anavar but others. And i've been doing that all over again, brushing up and whatnot. unfortunetly many of the profiles/info are somewhat vague at times, and/or contradict others so it becomes a question of which is right...or more right. Not to mention some of the original research i did may now be outdated (and who knows what i've forgotten over the years)

One example would be the proviron...some profiles i've read make it sound like a pct drug, some say it isnt anabolic at all and others say it slightly is. Kinda confusing.

Here is what i do know from my prior personal experience...on the anavar at 50mg i experienced no noticable loss of sex drive, no noticible testicular shrinkage and felt great. Bout the only side effect was i seemed to get the shits occasionally but that may have been from the increased protein i was consuming also. So maybe my hpta was supressed and i may have benifited from a drug like novadex or clomid, but if it was i didnt notice. I am not adverse to playing it safe though, and will likely add something like that to any cycle i do.

And as far as my training and diet go, all i can say is it was adequate enough to provide me results and at a speed i was very satisfied with.

Now let me attempt to clarify and defend my reasoning for wanting to do another cycle.... First im a lil under 5'9 and 140lbs...not big at all but slightly toned (still). I do not hold fat easily, i apologize if i made it sound that way, after probably 4 years i dont think i've put back all i lost while on that first cycle(and never looked cubby to begin with). Fortunately for me im one of those people that can pretty much eat anything and as much of it as i want with out it negatively impacting my appearance easily.....In fact i tend to eat a high fat, high protein, high sodium, high carb diet

Anyways i want to be in better shape, i want to look better, atleast get back to where i was, and reap all the benifits physical, mental, and socially that may come with that.

As already stated even after the initial cycle i maintained my workout for some time, and even my current state of starting and stopping is an improvement over what i was/wasnt doing before the cycle. Im hoping this time that once i get back to where i was i'll have learned my lesson and stick with it and improve naturally from that point on, or worst case scenerio maybe once every year or 2 i'll need to do 1 short cycle of anavar or something to maintain myself, and continue to reap any benifits and keep myself motivated.


I dont see why my motivations to do no more then 1 maybe 2 cycles every year or two AT MOST of a fairly safe anabolic (i bet my smoking is worse for me) are any less valid then the motivations of others on this board for taking mutiple/often harsher illegal drugs stacked on top of each other multiple times a year just in order to achieve faster and better results then they could naturally and allowing them to compete in some sport beyond their natural ability.

I'm also willing to wager beyond those motivations many if not all the people here are also subject to ones similar to my own. Such as looking and feeling better and reaping any benifits associated from that. Most of us are not here because of valid medical reasons, atleast not solely.

I personally feel that subjecting ones body to stacking multiple drugs, multiple times a year for many years all to gain a size and performance increases for the sake of a sport is kinda crazy, and wonder how healthy it is to be that obsessed with the sport and competing in it beyond your natural potential.

BUT i recognize that while my reasoning, goals and views may differ from other people's, it doesnt neccesarily make theirs any less valid from their perspective then my own from my perspective...and i try to respect that. Also like i said before i'd wager their motivations arent solely for the sake of the sport but also include ones similar to my own. Then there are the people that get addicted to putting on/maintaining huge gains even if it means very unhealthy practices, But there are always those who will take it to far.

So how many different reasons do i need or which reason is the essential one to making my desire to do a cycle of anavar as valid as someone elses desire to do a cycle of drugs stacked on top of each other over and over again????

I do not want to add test (atleast not stacked with anything else) to the cycle because i already know that anavar is capable of giving me the gains i want at an acceptable speed, and that it will be lean hard mass that sticks. I want to avoid any hassles that may come with getting to big to fast.

I only contemplated starting with the Methanabol as a jump start, and in the hopes that the anavar would compensate for hpta caused by the Methanabol...then i could ease off the anavar and avoid pct like i did before. Ofcourse now i think that some minimal pct is probably worth it and is the way to go regardless of the cycle i do. And it seems from the info im getting here, proviron is not a good choice/componet for pct. I also figured since the Methanabol was gonna be a one shot short duration deal, the risk to my liver would be minimal and the risk vs reward of it all would be something i could live with. Right now though im thinking of probably just uping the anavar and adding novadex or something after and callin it good. More then that would put me into a price range im not comfortable with. I definately like what im hearing about tbol, though, wish it was available on the sales site affiliated with this BB.

Anyways sorry this was so long, and i appreciate it if you read it all... I also appreciate ALL the responses/welcomes so far, and am still intrested to hear feedback on the questions posed in my first two posts. Ofcourse feel free to add feed back concering this post also.

(I swear i tried to indent all those paragraphs...hence the edits)
Sincerely,
Me

They Are Giving You Options The Final Dicision Is Up To You But They Are Also Pointing Out The High Risk Of Taking To Many Orals D'bols Are Very Stressful On The Liver Ok And You Are Going To Run That For What The Max Which Is What Like 6 Weeks And Then After That Run Var Which Is Also 17 Aa Which Is Also Stressful On The Liver All They Are Trying To Do Is Give You Better Options That Will Not Be Bad For Your Health You Can Not Purchase Another Liver Take All Precautions In Perserving The Ones You Have

Options are good. And the liver toxicity is one of the reasons i was asking about the dbol. My thoughts were that since it was one time deal and i was gonna do it in sequece instead of stacked that the risks would be minimal, but i wasnt sure so im glad for the feed back on that. I appreciate all the feedback concering the cycle/choice of anabolics and ancillaries....it was attacking the validity of my motivations that i wasnt asking for, and didnt really appreciate.

So far im thinking ill just go all anavar and add some novadex...but im wondering if stacking the proviron with the anavar would be helpful since its not liver toxic and is an estrogen antagonist. Sounds like it might help with any decrease in sex drive also.

Im a lil confused about this on the gxgr site about proviron...

"It may be taken over long periods of time. It does not aromatize in fact bodybuilders take this in place of Nolvadex because Proviron is an Estrogen antagonist. It is completely singlestick with all other steroids."

This is why i was thinking it might be useful as some type of minimal pct. Also what does "singlestick with all other steroids mean"????

thx

Dmarksvr wrote:Options are good. And the liver toxicity is one of the reasons i was asking about the dbol. My thoughts were that since it was one time deal and i was gonna do it in sequece instead of stacked that the risks would be minimal, but i wasnt sure so im glad for the feed back on that. I appreciate all the feedback concering the cycle/choice of anabolics and ancillaries....it was attacking the validity of my motivations that i wasnt asking for, and didnt really appreciate.

So far im thinking ill just go all anavar and add some novadex...but im wondering if stacking the proviron with the anavar would be helpful since its not liver toxic and is an estrogen antagonist. Sounds like it might help with any decrease in sex drive also.

Im a lil confused about this on the gxgr site about proviron...

"It may be taken over long periods of time. It does not aromatize in fact bodybuilders take this in place of Nolvadex because Proviron is an Estrogen antagonist. It is completely singlestick with all other steroids."

This is why i was thinking it might be useful as some type of minimal pct. Also what does "singlestick with all other steroids mean"????

thx

"Single stick other steroids" simply means it complements other AAS. it is an estrogen antagonist which means it competes with estrogen to bond at the receptor site, but it does NOT directly reduce estrogen. Next it free up bound test that is bound to SHBG, which may increase the effectiveness of some steroids and also make you very horney. IT IS NOT for pct, as it does not restore HPTA or increase LH. One thing i don't understand is that you are willing to do Methanabol which is very harsh on the liver, shuts you down very hard and will bloat you like crazy but are unwilling to use even a replacement dose of testosterone. This my friend indicates why some of us believe that you have not done your research. Also t-bol is available on the gear site it is called Turanabol. Peace.

Ah ok, thx for the info that clears things up.

As far as my willingness to take dbol, it was really just a thought given how cheap it was, and easy since it was an oral. I thought since it wasnt something i was gonna make a habit of, and wouldnt be stacking that the risks would be minimal. But most of the info out there just says "toxic". It doesnt really talk about the effects of 1 time short duration use. I mean if i take a low dose for 5-6 weeks is there a 50/50 chance, 60/40 etc etc, that i'll fry my liver??? or is it more like 1 in a million that i'll suffer serious liver effects?

Though i might have been willing to do it, it was gonna be a minimal dosage, along with short duration, so i was hoping to avoid most of the negative effects. But wasnt sure how realistic those expectations were, so thats one of the reasons i was asking my questions. Probably should have been more clear on all that.

I havent been able to find much info that has direct specific relavance to how i intended to take it. Alot of people have taken it, or similar drugs as part of stacks, and done multiple stacks without any meds to compensate for the liver effects. So it was more a question of yes its toxic, but given my intentions what does that mean to me in a practical sense??? does that make sense?

I started injectables once and really didnt like it, but it was after the anavar and i was already pretty happy with the results i had, so it was just extra hassle at the time that i wasnt into. Plus it was just some left over test that a friend didnt use, so it wouldnt have been a full cycles worth, just a few weeks worth. So again not really worth the hassle to me. Now if an injectable was my only option or was needed in conjunction with the anavar to achieve my goal then ya i'd do it. plus the pins and stuff would be extra stuff to hide

I've got a pretty sweet deal living in a trailor my parents own rent free. i just have to pay the lot fee. But since they own it they kinda feel entitled to enter when they want, but usually its to break in and clean So along with that and the sweet deal i cant really bitch much. But prefer to avoid questions, and needles would be harder then pills to explain away if i had to.

so again...So far im thinking ill just go all anavar and add some novadex...but im wondering if stacking the proviron with the anavar would be helpful since its not liver toxic and is an estrogen antagonist. Sounds like it might help increase the effects of the anavar and combat any decrease in sex drive also.

Proviron taken with anavar would be ok, it could help with any loss of libido. Now what you need to take into consideration is why would you be experiencing a loss of libido in the first place. The reason for this is because ALL AAS will shut down your natural testosterone production to some degree, hence this is why it is highly recommended that you take a replacement dose of test, say 150-200mg/wk. A drop in testosterone will not only kill your sex drive, but your energy levels also and could quite possibly make you depressed and feel run down. As for d-bol, probably the reason that you did not find much info on it as a stand alone drug is because it is never recommended to do alone. I understand your concerns and reservations when it comes to needles but injectables are generally much safer than orals and result in better gains that are more readily retained. For the goals that you have stated I would go with t-bol, as it is less expensive, will give you much better gains and has little side effects. For the gains you are looking for i would run it like this:

Wk 1-10: 200mg of test cyponate (1 ml/shot per week)
wk 1-8: 40mg/day of t-bol

PCT Week 12

wk 1- 60mg nolva/day
wk 2- 40mg nolva/day
wk 3- 20mg nolva/day

This would give you nice lean gains, that would be retained for the most part. Give this a try, you won't be disapointed. Peace.

10 weeks @ 50mg Tbol ed + 50mg Proviron ed + 5g Tribulus ed

or

10 weeks @ 50mg Anavar ed + 50mg Proviron ed + 5g Tribulus ed


Both are lean gains but Tbol will prob give you more results

Hmm thx for those suggestions guys, might be something to consider...tbol isnt on the gxgr site though is it? or is it under another name? And isnt it more toxic then the anavar?

couple more questions.... First you stated that any aas will shut down my own test so is taking a supplemental shot of test that benificial? since my own test would be shut down with it just like with the anavar or dbol? or is it a matter of degrees/type of hormone involved? So the anavar doesnt compensate for that until the novadex is started to replace it? Reason im so dead set on anavar is my prior experience, i already know it will do what i want, and i didnt experience any loss of sex drive or any other side effects really (though i am a few years older now). And all that kinda gives me piece of mind opposed to something new.

Its Listed As Turanabol, Under Orals! Great Stuff By The Way!!

Ok i must be freaking blind....after several people mentioned it i looked twice and missed it still....third time must be the charm

Sounds good...and sounds like maybe 10-15mg would do me just fine. Cheap to...would allow me to add some proviron, liv 52, and novadex also all for very little money. I could get started sooner then i thought

Maybe it worth goin that way instead of the anavar.
I'll look up some more info on it...but any info on its liver toxicity compared to that of anavar? and other side effects?

Dmarksvr wrote:Hmm thx for those suggestions guys, might be something to consider...tbol isnt on the gxgr site though is it? or is it under another name? And isnt it more toxic then the anavar?

couple more questions.... First you stated that any aas will shut down my own test so is taking a supplemental shot of test that benificial? since my own test would be shut down with it just like with the anavar or dbol? or is it a matter of degrees/type of hormone involved? So the anavar doesnt compensate for that until the novadex is started to replace it? Reason im so dead set on anavar is my prior experience, i already know it will do what i want, and i didnt experience any loss of sex drive or any other side effects really (though i am a few years older now). And all that kinda gives me piece of mind opposed to something new.

Dude, re-read what i said ALL AAS WILL SHUT YOU DOWN!! Anavar is not testosterone and it will not have the same effect as test. Anavar, d-bol, t-bol, it does not matter they will all shut down your natural test production. Do the test with your oral and as i said before, you will not be disapointed with the results. Peace.