Still trying to figure out all of the side effect stuff. Why are the DHT side effects (acne, hairloss, etc) prominent with the DHT derivative gear (Deca, Mastabol, etc)? If the are derived from DHT, theoretically they can't convert back to DHT, rght?

deca is not a DHT product

Thats a good question... I suspect its because they are still simular and still produce simular effects... For me Test is the worse for hair loss but at this point in my life I just dont care about hair anymore...

Good point Lifthard! Thx! Deca is not a DHT derivative, it metabolizes to dihydronandrolone which is similar, but less potent than DHT.

I hear ya Visons. Test E takes my hair out in clumps, even with 1mg of Finistride/day. Unfortunately, Im still clinging to the idea of being big AND having hair.

Visions wrote:Thats a good question... I suspect its because they are still simular and still produce simular effects... For me Test is the worse for hair loss but at this point in my life I just dont care about hair anymore...

Ya, my hair started receding at age 19, i'm almost 32, I don't have that much hair left to lose anyway...lol. But on a serious note, high DHT levels can cause prostate problems, now that's something I'm concerned about. I think regardless of age it could potentially effect us all using this type of gear. I am gonna look more into I, as I too would be interested in supplements that could reduce the negative sides. I know Saw Palmeto has some promising effects, potentially reducing DHT- I am going to look for more data on this. Another question is if Saw Palmeto can reduce DHT, would it decrease the effectiveness of this type of gear?? It certainly seems like something worthy of a little research. I'm gonna check into it. Peace.

Another point is that some people have a predisposition for hair loss. At some point in time certain guys (me..lol) are gonna lose their hair anyways because of the way their follicals respond to DHT. Yet there are others like my grandfather that was 94 when he died and had more hair than me, that won't lose their hair no matter what gear they take.

gustavo77 wrote:Ya, my hair started receding at age 19, i'm almost 32, I don't have that much hair left to lose anyway...lol. But on a serious note, high DHT levels can cause prostate problems, now that's something I'm concerned about. I think regardless of age it could potentially effect us all using this type of gear. I am gonna look more into I, as I too would be interested in supplements that could reduce the negative sides. I know Saw Palmeto has some promising effects, potentially reducing DHT- I am going to look for more data on this. Another question is if Saw Palmeto can reduce DHT, would it decrease the effectiveness of this type of gear?? It certainly seems like something worthy of a little research. I'm gonna check into it. Peace.

Well I have some good news for ya... DHT has been used for TRT with no ill effects...

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...urcetype=HWCIT

Visions wrote:Well I have some good news for ya... DHT has been used for TRT with no ill effects...

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...urcetype=HWCIT

Nice, my prostate thanks you Visions my bro.

at what dose/level do the DHT sides kick in prominently?
I know everyone is different, but is there a threshold where the sides outweigh the benefits? I have heard Test has this diminishing return point and was wondering where all the DHT derivatives lie on this scale.

Happiest wrote:at what dose/level do the DHT sides kick in prominently?
I know everyone is different, but is there a threshold where the sides outweigh the benefits? I have heard Test has this diminishing return point and was wondering where all the DHT derivatives lie on this scale.

Its all trial and error for each steroid... What works for one guy may do next to nothing for next guy or be way too much... Just start with the standard dose and see how you react...

You never know how you react until you try it... For me the past 2 times I used Deca my left elbo and muscle around it would hurt bad, and when I stopped the deca the pain slowly went away and hasn't happened with any other gear... Now I am on Deca again and I have bad pain in my left elbo and muscle around it again,,,Coinsidence? I thought it was coinsidence until now,,, I also have neck pain now where I never did before... Could deca be the root cause? Am not sure... but what I am sure of is I never have that elbo and muscle pain until I get on Deca... Going to the Chiropractor tomorrow to see whats going on with the neck... I have stopped deca,,, it's killing my libido anyway and I have to take 1/2 dose Cabaser ed to have a libido so it's not worth it to me... I get better results on low dose Tren and have a high libido...