here is a great read on HCG and how it works @ how to effectively use it.
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Human Chorionic Gonadotropin HCG is a Growth Hormone, Not an Anabolic Steroid.


Drug Name: HCG - Human Chorionic Gonadotropin

HCG, is not an anabolic/androgenic steroid but a natural protein hormone which develops in the placenta of a pregnant woman. HCG is formed in the placenta immediately after nidation. It has luteinizing characteristics since it is quite similar to the luteinizing hormone LH in the anterior pituitary gland. During the first 6-8 weeks of a pregnancy the formed HCG allows for continued production of estrogens and gestagens in the yellow bodies (corpi luteum).Later on, the placenta itself produces these two hormones. HCG is manufactured from the urine of pregnant women since it is exerted in unchanged form from the blood via the woman's urine, passing through the kidneys. The commercially available HCG is sold as a dry substance and can be used both in men and women. In women injectable HCG allows for ovulation since it influences the last stages of the development of the ovum, thus stimulating ovulation. It also helps produce estrogens and yellow bodies.


The fact that exogenous HCG has characteristics almost identical to those of the luteinizing hormone (LH) which, as mentioned, is produced in the hypophysis, makes HCG so very interesting for athletes. In a man the luteinizing hormone stimulates the Leydig's cells in the testes; this in turn stimulates production of androgenic hormones (testosterone). For this reason athletes use injectable HCG to increase the testosterone production. HCG is often used in combination with anabolic/androgenic steroids during or after treatment. As mentioned, oral and injectable steroids cause a negative feedback after a certain level and duration of usage. A signal is sent to the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis since the steroids give the hypothalamus an incorrect signal. The hypothalamus, in turn, signals the hypophysis to reduce or stop the production of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and of LH. Thus, the testosterone production decreases since the testosterone-producing Leydig's cells in the testes, due to decreased LH, are no longer sufficiently stimulated. Since the body usually needs a certain amount of time to get its testosterone production going again, the athlete, after discontinuing steroid compounds, experiences a difficult transition phase which often goes hand in hand with a considerable loss in both strength and muscle mass. Administering HCG directly after steroid treatment helps to reduce this condition because HCG increases the testosterone production in the testes very quickly and reliably. In the event of testicular atrophy caused by mega doses and very long periods of usage, HCG also helps to quickly bring the testes back to their original condition (size). Since occasional injections of HCG during steroid intake can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two to three weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment. It is often observed that during this time the athlete makes his best progress with respect to gains in both strength and muscle mass. The reasons for this is clear. On the one hand, by taking HCG the athlete's own testosterone level immediately jumps up and, on the other hand, a large concentration of anabolic substances in the blood is induced by the steroids. Many bodybuilders, power lifters, and weightlifters report a lower sex drive at the end of a difficult workout cycle, immediately before or after a competition, and especially toward the end of a steroid treatment. Athletes who have often taken steroids in the past usually accept this fact since they know that it is a temporary condition. Those, however who are on the juice all year round, who might suffer psychological consequences or who would perhaps risk the breakup of a relationship because of this should consider this drawback when taking HCG in regular intervals. A reduced libido and spermatogenesis due to steroids in most cases, can be successfully cured by treatment with HCG.


Most athletes, however, use HCG at the end of a treatment in order to avoid a "crash," that is, to achieve the best possible transition into "natural training." A precondition, however, is that the steroid intake or dosage be reduced slowly and evenly before taking HCG. Although HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasma testosterone level, unfortunately it is not a perfect remedy to prevent the loss of strength and mass at the end of a steroid treatment. The athlete will only experience a delayed re-adjustment, as has often been observed. Although HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in reestablishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis. The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage, and remain this way while HCG is being used, because the endogenous testosterone produced as a result of the exogenous HCG represses the endogenous LH production. Once the HCG is discontinued, the athlete must still go through a re-adjustment period. This is merely delayed by the HCG use. For this reason experienced athletes often take Clomid and Clenbuterol following HCG intake or they immediately begin another steroid treatment. Some take HCG merely to get off the "steroids" for at least two to three weeks.


Many bodybuilders, unfortunately, are still of the opinion that HCG helps them become harder while preparing for a completion by breaking down subcutaneous fat so that indentations and vascularity are better exposed. The HCG package insert states clearly that HCG has no known effect of fat mobilization, appetite or sense of hunger, or body fat distribution. HCG has not been demonstrated to be effective adjunctive therapy in the treatment of obesity, it does not increase fat losses beyond that resulting from caloric restriction.


Athlete should inject one HCG ampoule (5000 I.U.) every 5 days. Since the testosterone level, as explained, remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The relative dose is at the discretion of the athlete and should be determined based on the duration of his previous steroid intake and on the strength of the various steroid compounds. Athletes who take steroids for more than three months and athletes who use primarily the highly androgenic steroids such as Anadrol, Sustanon, Testosterone Cypionate, Dianabol (D-bol), etc. should take a relatively high dosage. The effective dosage for athletes is usually 2000-5000 I.U. per injection and should-as already mentioned-be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a 4 weeks maximum.


If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function. Cycles on the HCG should be kept down to around 3 weeks at a time with an off cycle of at least a month in between. For example, one might use the HCG for 2 or 3 weeks in the middle of a cycle, and for 2 or 3 weeks at the end of a cycle. It has been speculated that the prolonged use of HCG could permanently, repress the body's own production of gonadotropins. This is why short cycles are the best way to go.


HCG can in part cause side effects similar to those of injectable testosterone. A higher testosterone production also goes hand in hand with an elevated estrogen level which could result in gynecomastia. This could manifest itself in a temporary growth of breasts or reinforce already existing breast growth in men. Farsighted athletes thus combine HCG with an anti estrogen. Male athletes also report more frequent erections and an increased sexual desire. In high doses it can cause acne vulgarism and the storing of minerals and water. The last point must especially be observed since the water retention which is possible through the use of HCG could give the muscle system a puffy and watery appearance. Athletes who have already increased their endogenous testosterone level by taking Clomid and intend subsequently to take HCG could experience considerable water retention and distinct feminization symptoms (gynecomastia, tendency toward fat deposits on the hips). This is due to the fact that high testosterone leads to a high conversion rate to estrogens. In very young athletes HCG, like anabolic steroids, can cause an early stunting of growth since it prematurely closes the epiphysial growth plates. Mood swings and high blood pressure can also be attributed to the intake of HCG. HCG is also suitable as "over bridge" doping before a competition with doping controls.


HCG's form of administration is also unusual. The substance choriongonadotropin is a white powdery freeze-dried substance which is usually used as a compress. Based on the low structural stability of this compress it can easily fall apart, thus giving the impression of a reduced volume. This is, however, insignificant since there is neither a loss in effect nor a loss of substance. Each package, for each HCG ampoule, includes another ampoule with an injection solution containing isotonic sodium chloride. This liquid, after both ampoules have been opened in a sterile manner, is injected into the HCG ampoule and mixed with the dried substance. The solution is then ready for use and should be injected intramuscularly. If only part of the substance is injected the residual solution should be stored in the refrigerator. It is not necessary to store the unmixed HCG in the refrigerator; however, it should be kept out of light and below a temperature of 25° C.


HCG is a relatively expensive compound. Pregnyl costs approx.$36 -45 for 3 ampules of 5000 I.U. each and the relative solution ampules. The other compounds have a similar price and are $12 -15 for 5000 I.U. The 5000 I.U. ampules are the most economic and, in our opinion, also the most sensible for bodybuilders, power lifters and weightlifters. There are currently only a few fakes of HCG. Since the dry substance of HCG is somewhat similar to the dry substance of Somatropin often "cheap" HCG is sold as "expensive" HGH on the black market. This circumstance was probably Ben Johnson's downfall during his second positive doping test with his increased testosterone/epitestosterone value in early 1993 (see also growth hormones HGH)

Very informative bro..
We've been needing an hcg sticky for a long time...

that was good,thank you

I've read other reports where HCG is administered just under the skin 1/4" and this can be done with an insulin dart. Is this correct?

Does one start with a lower dosage and increase the amount over the cycle?

Can this be injected directly into fat sites like the abs, etc?

Great Sticky, Thanks!
I too thought HCG was injected just under the skin?
ART

Learned some stuff I didnt even know and I am a pro about hcg..well I thought

Later
THEHULK

You answered many questions for me, thank you.

Aaron

Very good read, although I'm not quite sure I believe in using that much HCG 5000 iu's I've read is a lot and could cause the shut down of testosterone again. Where I see this is a problem is because in that article they say that HCG may cause more water retention. This is due to the fact that their is an elevated estrogen level, hence using too much HCG and actually raising Endogenous Test levels too much. Too high of endogenous test levels and you could shut yourself down again, but this time not from exogenous test.

There have been studies done stating that too high of HCG administration will cause Leydig cell desensitization ie more than 1000iu's. Which definitely could be the culprit in trying to restore test levels, since LH is part of what will keep your HPTA functioning. I prefer to use 500 iu's every 4 days, HCG has a 3 day half life.

2RIIPPED wrote:Very good read, although I'm not quite sure I believe in using that much HCG 5000 iu's I've read is a lot and could cause the shut down of testosterone again. Where I see this is a problem is because in that article they say that HCG may cause more water retention. This is due to the fact that their is an elevated estrogen level, hence using too much HCG and actually raising Endogenous Test levels too much. Too high of endogenous test levels and you could shut yourself down again, but this time not from exogenous test.

There have been studies done stating that too high of HCG administration will cause Leydig cell desensitization ie more than 1000iu's. Which definitely could be the culprit in trying to restore test levels, since LH is part of what will keep your HPTA functioning. I prefer to use 500 iu's every 4 days, HCG has a 3 day half life.

I agree
That read is the old way of thinking. Jump starting the shut down testes with high amounts of gonadotropin. Lower doses throughout or periodically during the cycle and even the last four week of the cycle have been found more affective and less harmfull on the leydigs.
NTG

Posted by Bass at WCBB from Realgains.


How to KEEP GAINS from steroids

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By RealGains:

How to KEEP GAINS from steroids


This info I have gleaned from self research, trial and error, from my endochrinologist, from SWALE and from training hundreds of clients over the years.

This is a longish post but many of you will greatly benefit from reading it so try to bare with my "blathering"

First of all I would like to stress that I and my endochrinologist do not believe one can keep gains above ones natural max, or that level of muscular developement that can be held to without steroids. In other words, I think one will always shrink down to the size that can be held to with ones own T production.

In reality what usually happens is that many(not all) steroid users fall BELOW their natural max within months of discontinuing steroids for one or all of the following reasons......poor HPTA recovery and or lack of knowledge in regard to what makes up proper steroid free training.

If HPTA recovery is not fairly rapid and complete then obviously one risks dropping BELOW ones natural max in time. If one does not know how to train effectively without steroids then one will rapidly overtrain and drop below natural max in time, not to mention the strong possibilty of injury which also will hinder gainskeeping.

You can, however, makes gains well above your natural max while on steroids and then with prudent use of ancillaries, and proper natural training, hold to your natural max well into ones 50's and perhaps early 60's.

As an estimate of natural max.......the average guy of average height( 5"9 or 10" and with average bone structure and genetically typical recuperative abilities (vast majority of men) can usually get to a lean 190-195 with a bench of 275-300, full squat of 375-400 and a deadlift of about 500 pounds without steroids.


ANCILLARIES....HCG


Dare I say that HCG use is more important than SERMS(nolva or clomid) for good hpta recovery after a LONG cycle( 12 weeks or longer)
Personally I would use hcg during any cycle 8 weeks or longer...and if you are really paranoid and want the absolute most rapid hpta recovery then use it during any cycle for next to zero testicular shrinkage.

Now you will recover hpta without hcg, and fairly quickly if you truly have not suffered from much testicular atrophy, but not as rapidly as you could and that will cost you at least some gains.

HCG, human chorionic gonadotropin, is a hormone taken from placentas during pregnancy. It limics the action of LH from the pituitary and stimualtes testosterone production in the testes.

It is important to the male bodybuilder in that proper use of this hormone PREVENTS testicular atrophy caused by HPTA shut down from steroid use.

If the testes are shut down they will shrink, it's as simple as that. The degree of shrinkage depends upon the length of time "on" androgens. Some guys literally see their testes atrophy down to raisen size..NO ****. Others see modest shrinkage and a few say they see NO shrinkage. In the latter this is BS and has to due with poor pre-cycle assessmant of testicular size....after all how many of us sit down before a cycle and really feel the true size of our balls.


NOTE: all steroids will shut you down 100% and at a very low dose, and that includes Primo and anavar for you sceptics. As little as 100mg a weekof testosterone administered exogenously in the form of injections will shut you down in as little as a few weeks.

HPTA RECOVERY

The hormones that drive the HPT axis(LH and GnRH) recover full potential quite quickly post cycle. The hypothalamus rapidly senses a low androgen level and pumps out GnRH and this tells the pituitary to release LH for testicular stimulation of T production......trouble is if the nuts are small they simply cannot respond well to this stimulation. The testes take a fair amount of time to "get going" after a long sleep and as a result T levels post cycle can be low for months(if greatly atrophied). This obviously results in a rapid loss of gains, not to mention phycological isssues such as depression as well as physical issues like fatigue.

* SO it is important for "optimal" gainskeeping to try to begin HPTA recovery with full or nearly full sized testes.

HOW TO USE HCG

It is best to prevent testicular atrophy in the first place rather than trying to bringing the boys back to size after they have already atrophied.
With this in mind prudent use of hcg is DURING a cycle.

HCG can be taken either IM or sub Q in the fat and yes you can mix it with your oils.

Take it at 500iu's every 3rd or 4th day while on cycle.


Some use it post cycle at higher doses after their testes have already shrunk. This method works but I do not believe that it is the best way to use HCG. In this method one injects a high dose of hcg right near the end ofa cycle but before clomid. The opening dose is often 3000iu's followed sometimes by another 3000 4 days latter and then 1500iu's every 4th or 5th day and then the last shot is usually only 1000iu's....total time three weeks.
No use taking clomid or nolav with the HCG since HCG will supress the hpta all by itself via the testosterone production it stimulates.

WARNING.....if you use hcg at a high dose for too long you might desensitize the testes to LH so don't get carried away with it.



SERMS clomid and nolva

After any cycle a SERM should be used, either clomid or nolva.

SERMS help to "kickstart" a sleepy hpyothalmic GnRH response.

GnRH is pretty quick to recover but SERMS help the hypothalamus to "turn the key" on the GnRH impulse generating engine.

SERMS block the affect of estrogen at the hypothalamus and since estrogen is highly inhibitory this blocking affect allows for greater LH production. This "greater LH production" strongly stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.
If you use only gear that does NOT aromatize to estrogen then you don't have to worry about the inhibitory affect of estrogen post cycle(from the steroid)...but SERMs should still be used to counter the inhibitory affect of the estrogen seen form the T production(from the hcg use).....and also from the estrogen production from the aromatization of the T production form your testes after the hcg is stopped.

*Even if you never used HCG you should still use a SERM after a cycle with non aromatizing gear to counter the inhibitory effect of normal estrogen production(from the aromatization of T from your improving T production)

You have to wait until exogenous androgen levels drop to a similar level of what a normal T production would be, in order for this LH stimulating affect from SERMS to work, since androgens are also highly inhibitory on the hypothalamus.

So you must have to have a good grasp on the half lifes of the various gear you use. You also have to be aware of the how the dose taken factors into the equation. ie: test cyp has a half life of around 6 days so with this in mind 500mg of test cyp will reduce to 250 mg in a week and about 125 in another week. That 125mg is about 100mg of pure testosterone(minus ester weight) and you can now begin SERM therapy because that level is near what a normal T output would be(slightly higher though)

NOTE: There is no penalty for starting a SERM too early but there is one for starting too late.

Search for half lifes of other gear in other threads on the boards.

On opening "SERM day", post cycle, you want to do a "loading dose" of about 200-300mg of clomid in divided doses in order to get blood levels up pronto. Then take 50-100mg/day for a week and then 50mg/day for 3 more weeks MINIMUM... and longer after deca use.
Alternatively you can use nolva at 80mg on day one in divided dose and then 40mg /day for a week and then 20mg/day for at least 3 more weeks.



PROPER STEROID FREE TRAINING POST CYCLE.....for the genetically typical(most men)...not easy gainers.

Thanx to all the glossy magazines out there very very few bro's really know how to train for gains without steroids. Dare I say that not a few of you turned to gear simply because you could not make very good gains as a natural.

Thanx JOE WEIDER, and others, for NOT telling the whole story in the glossy mags. THE ROUTINES IN THE MAGS WILL NOT WORK FOR 90% OF ALL MEN UNLESS THEY ARE, #1 ON GEAR AND #2, AT LEAST SOMEWHAT GENETICALLY GIFTED. Guys these pro's are so out of touch with what works for the typical man training naturally that it isn't funny.
These guys are genetic freaks on a ton of gear...like 2-4 grams of test a week, other steroids, growth and slin! Not only that but they don't have jobs outside the gym to drain them either!

Steroids not only help muscle building but more importantly they GREATLY improve recuperative powers.

Most guys continue to train in a very similar fashion while off gear as they did while on gear, especially in regard the number of days in the gym each week, and this is a HUGE ERROR.
Many many guys simply overtrain after they stop the gear and loose huge amounts of muscle and many actually end up below their natural max potential in time. Others do not even bother training at all without juice!

I went to a Dorian Yates seminar a few years ago and he mentioned all this. Dorians recommendations in regards to training without gear where almost identicle to mine. Dorian said that most trainees should train no more frequently than three days a week on a three way split while "off" steroids and that all should use a low volume of sets and work primarily on the big basic compound movements with very hard work. FINIALLY A PRO THAT KNOWS AND TELLS THE TRUTH!


Most men simply cannot recuperate from frequent trips to the gym and even moderately high volume without the assistance of steroids. Most men are genetically typical in the recuperation department....and thats at least 90% of you bro's.

I have good genetics for bodybuilding and I could train in almost any manner while on gear and gain well but even while on gear I choose to train infrequently, every other day on a three way split while "on" and Mon-Wed and FRI on a three way split while "off", and with low volume and very hard work...WHY?...for three reasons....#1. I have other things to do in my busy life and #2. I make even better gains and get even bigger with this style of training...#3. I like it

****SO>>>>>How much more is it important for the typical trainee to train in a similar way without steroids in his system.

GUYS...you don't have to be in the gym 5 and 6 days a week and train with high volume in order to see excellent gains while"on" steroids and in fact most of you would do better training fewer days and with lower volume but with more effort on those sets.
For those that are in the gym 6 days a week and like 10-20 sets per body part and are making good gains then more power to ya...but you just might do better training less frequently and with less volume.
**** I am genetically gifted and I have seen my best gains on gear training every other day on a three way split with low volume and big efforts.
Remember you easy gainers...the pro's are very genetically gifted, on more gear than most of you and don't have jobs or go to school.


EXAMPLE OF PROPER STEROID FREE TRAINING...for the genetically typical, or probably at least 90% of all bro's on this board. Notice the focus on the big basic compound movements.

********PLEASE.....the genetically gifted and easy gainers need not make negative comments!*********

Some of you like to be in the gym 5-6 days a week and like higher volume with more isolation work and you do well without steroids ...thats fine...but most men simply cannot gain well or even keep what they gained from steroids training like you. Dare I say that maybe you too would do better by cutting volume a bit, increasing effort, focusing on the big basics and spending a little less time in the gym each week.

I have 6 amps of 5000 iu HCG, 60 tabs of nolva, and about 100 tabs of clomid.
I have been reading to do a wwk of HCG mid-cycle, and then do the rest at the end. At the end of the HCG , should I take clomid , and during the whole time should I be taking nolvadex ?

Getting Confused!!!!

coolioni wrote:I have 6 amps of 5000 iu HCG, 60 tabs of nolva, and about 100 tabs of clomid.
I have been reading to do a wwk of HCG mid-cycle, and then do the rest at the end. At the end of the HCG , should I take clomid , and during the whole time should I be taking nolvadex ?

Getting Confused!!!!

During your cycle you should take 500iu's 2x per week(1000iu total). To be honest you only needed 2 500iu amps of HCG. You keep taking the HCG until you start PCT. During PCT you will drop the HCG and start with the Nolva/Clomid.

I do not reccomend taking Nolva through the whole cycle. If you are prone to or experiencing gyno problems i stongly suggest you start up a tru AI like Aroma/Letro/Adex to take while on cycle. A big plus to Aroma or Letro though is that you can also take it during PCT and even after PCT. It will keep you natural test up ~40% and your estrogen down ~40%

5000 iu amp makes 10 shots at 500 ius am i correct

anabolman wrote:5000 iu amp makes 10 shots at 500 ius am i correct

Well yes...5000 divided by 500 = 10 shots

Is it absolutely necessary to keep hgc in the fridge once you mix it?

hello all here in kennesaw ga. wanting to know where to pin hcg? skin or muscle thanks all

tbhard wrote:hello all here in kennesaw ga. wanting to know where to pin hcg? skin or muscle thanks all

ive always done intramuscular injections, but i know quite a few ppl who do sub-q as well.

Biggin concurs with xhosea, either way is fine Imo..

Hey there,

This was a very good postoing, I would appreciate if you could answer my questions about cycle and PCT.

I have never know well how to do steroids cycles and have red alot about PCT but still not sure what do order and how to take it.

I have got from Kalpa Pharmaceuticals:
Sustaxyl 350 (3 x 10 ml vial) and the Stanoxyl 10 (3 X 100 tabs of 10mg)
1- How should I combine them?

2- what should I get for the PCT and how should I take it and when to start taking?

BTW I am a 44 years old male, 5"9', 170 Lb, who wants to gain some muscle but stay lean.

Once again, thanks for the posting and for your help and attention.

Dennis Rosembloom

Awesome post and very informative. Love this forum very mature and complete answers.