Hey guys, i recently finished a Wini/Deca/Clen cycle. Pretty happy with the results. Only problem is i didnt add all that much strength or size. I started the cycle at 171 lbs, 15% bf, max bench around 230. I ended at 174 lbs 10% bf with a max bench of 260. I did look FAR better(i love Wini) That was cool for my first cycle, but with my 2nd, i want to add some size and strength, here is what i am thinking:

week 1-4 20 mg Dbol daily
Week 1-8 250 sust weekly(although i was thinkng of going a bit more)
post cycle clomid
Ndex on hand

Couple questions, should i actually take Ndex during this cycle, or just keep it on hand if i need it. 2nd, It is my understanding that i wont keep much of the results from this cycle after i am done, what do you guys think i will keep after im finished, 50%?

Also, i was thinking of running a t3 and or clen with this, would you recomend it, or is it counter productive, i would like to stay pretty lean, not just mass. If so, at what point during my cycle should i take the T3/clen?

Thanks for your help

Well, the results you got are not massive, but by my rough calculation you put on 12lbs of muscle. If you can do that every time you will be huge in no time.

Most people, myself included, heard all the steroid hype and somewhat expected to turn into the hulk with the first cycle. Keep in mind most people that train naturally and eat perfectly year round put on about 8lbs per year. You beat the crap out of that in less that 10 weeks.

There are two things that you need to put on serious mass, use test, and eat. If you are looking for serious stength gains you may want to add dbol to the cycle, but, since you used orals in your last cycle you really should consider the effects on your liver.

week 1-10
Test E 500mg wk
Equipose 400 mg wk

week 8-12 winny oral 50mg day or inj 50mg eod

weeks 13-15 nolva 40/30/20 mg/day respectively each week.

Run nolva at 20mg per night or your choice of anti e to stay dry during the cycle. T3 and clen aren not required, but could be added if desired.

yeah what e.m. said

Any reason i should avoid Sust? and i am including DBol in my cycle, what percent of my size/strength gains can i expect to keep after a Sust/Dbol cycle is over?

P.S. Being that i like to drink on occasion, should i maybe skip the Dbol?

Thanks

You should skip the drinking, not the Dbol!

with lower doosages of sust your bloodlevels will fluctuate to wildly to make it a good thing for building muscle. a single long estered test product will be better than the sust which has 4 different test esters in it..
as far as the drinking, you are much better to abstain from drinking during a cycle than to not use a particular aas product. the drinking could affect your performance in the gym, may prevent you from maintaining proper diet etc. besides that, why do you want to do one thing that is a possitive(aas use) for your body and at the same time do another thing that is a negative(drinking)?

Bump Pin's and Scp's advice and I would like to add that the reason I included equipose in the suggested cycle is it will help you to retain more of your gains as it is more anabolic than androgenic.

With dbol I do add strength and it is progressively better with each day and I typically retain at least 90% of my strength gains from dbol. What I lose after dbol is the water weight that I take on.

If you use the scale alone to determine what you keep from a cycle you will be depressed. If you look at the overall picture, like your log book to see how much strength you have retained you will see your progress more easily.

If you can find it in yourself to run the cycle I suggested I think you will be happy. If you want to add the dbol run it the first 4weeks of the cycle. Get some LIV 52 from your local health and vitamin store and take it throughout the cycle and pct for sure. Don't drink any alcohol.

I always stack test (androgenic) with something like deca or eq (anabolic) to help with retaining muscle gains. What you retain from a cycle is dependent on many factors. But I will take a stab and say you can expect to gain about 20-25lbs and keep about 15 with that cycle. Most if not all of the loss can be attributed to water.

The biggest mistake that most people make when coming off of a cycle IMO is to drop the calories too low without consideration of the additional mass that they need to support. The next biggest mistake is to let the slight decrease in strength and the weight loss discourage you from training 100%, this is where mental fortitude is important. I hope this answers your question. If not shoot another one out there.

E.M. has outlined a real nice cycle for you. The cycle you had with the sust is weak, like pincrusher said, meaning the test portion from the sust is too low, all your doing is shutting down your own test production and just adding a little more. You will not see much from the little added. Also when running a shorter cycle (8 weeks) I like shorter esters ie prop, more pokes but it kicks in and out quicker so that everything is working together.

As far as nolva goes, I like to keep both nolva and adex on hand. Each has their own strength. Nolva blocks the binding to the receptor, while adex blocks the production of the extra estrogen.

Keep in mind that estrogen will increase your gains, thats a plus but you need to stay away from the nasty side which is of coarse the gyno. I like to let it go and only take corrective action if required. Also the water is good for you too. So unless your trying to cut for a show or something like that, I would let it go to. You will loose it when you come off anyway. Do not get confused by the scale. You will gain mass if you have all things in balance. AAS, Food, Rest and training.

Its synergy ...... they all work together.

A big bump to Ratchet

Hey bro ... be careful with the d-bol and drinking. I've been taking 25mg of dianabol ED, and I decided to go out last nite and get trashed. Needless to say I got in a fight with some idiot at the bar. DBol is very hard on your attitude ... especially when you add alcohol to the equation

capt_salve