Hey Yall,
Your thoughts please from some who have been there MY question: I need 10 to 15 lbs lean muscle and to keep it while developing my speed and explosion to its top. I am a running back, so strength, speed and explosion are my priority. I am 5'10 175lbs, work out all the time, clean lifestyle and all that, good diet, high protien, complex carbs etc... I need to stay with orals due to possible testing (faster clean out time) I am working with a pro speed coach and workouts usually twice a day. Does 20 - 30 mg/day of T-bol for 6-7 wks with 3 weeks of clomid at 50mg/day sound like it will give the desired result?

Thanks Guy's

Jesus...this is like the fourth thread in 2 days with someone asking about Tbol(or oral) only cycles.

Do a little searching and you will see just how unsmart it is to do a oral only cycle. Further more why not just stay clean? Why even run the risk when you are being tested? Most of us dont have the benefit of trainers and coaches etc... that you say you have. Work harder and closer with them to build your speed and strength. Going on a tbol only cycle in the end will probably just slow you down. Its going to shut down your natural test in as little as 3 weeks. You HAVE to atleast get in a trt dose of 150-250mg test. Test is a base for all cycles. You have to have it.

Also i have a question....How old are you?

EDIT: After reading your profile it says dad/ex pro-football player. So i am guessing you are ~30's-early 40's. Test is a definate MUST if you plan on running any oral cycle. You will feel the effects of low to no natural test levels pretty fast and pretty bad.

Correct me if I am wrong, but HGH or IGF along with some slin would be a good way of adding some mass and not getting screwed in terms of testing.

HGH and slin will add a few pounds to you. Just be sure you know what the hell you are doing or you will take too much slin or not enough carbs and you will die. (No joke). I take 20 IUs of slin, a drinnk a protein shake iwth 3/4 of a cup of sugar added and then have an apple andd I never have a problem - don't even get drowsy.

Dude, not taking anything away from this board but......go to www.cuttingedgemuscle.com and go to their endurance forum.....you will find a wealth of information (mostly doping cyclists) ....

But, 30mg of TBOL will give you some gains....the biggest effect I noticed was it gave me spliting headaches, though.

My suggestion is go with 150-200mg of test and maybe 300mg of EQ. If you've never done a cycle, then go with test. If your worried about testing, then go with Test Cyp(I think thats the fast clearing type....go to cem, tons of posts on that).

****Remember, its all about power/weight ration, unlike bb'rs, you dont want to gain too much.

Good starting point: 250mg test a week - but you may actually gain too much weight.....

I did 250mg of test, gained too much water, supplemented with 25mg of Clomid daily and the water weight came off.

I'm currently on 100mg of test e. with 200mg of EQ. (probably going to up the EQ to 300 mg) Most on this board would tell you I'm wasting my money....but, most on this board probably dont bike 9 hours a week AND have to haul their ass up big hills on a bike....on a hill a lb is a lb is a lb

Dont f' around with AAS if you've never tried plain test before....trust me, on a low dose of test. your gonna notice the difference. As one old dude to another, the first thing you'll notice is you can work all day, train hard, service the wife, and then wake up the next morning feeling refreshed, horny, and ready to train again.

Another thing, remember, weights and steroids are going to build the muscle...fast, but its not neccessarily going to give you the capillaries and the muscle endurance needed to use all those muscles...that could take much longer. Be careful not to injure yourself! Not that I'm an expert, but I'm an expert on gaining alot of muscle (and water weight) fast and then injuring yourself.....

Yeah, I think that the question was asked, how old are you? Just by looking at your stats I guessing you're pretty young. Im also guessing you're talking about good old american football and not that other sport haha.

Rulez wrote:Jesus...this is like the fourth thread in 2 days with someone asking about Tbol(or oral) only cycles.

Do a little searching and you will see just how unsmart it is to do a oral only cycle. Further more why not just stay clean? Why even run the risk when you are being tested? Most of us dont have the benefit of trainers and coaches etc... that you say you have. Work harder and closer with them to build your speed and strength. Going on a tbol only cycle in the end will probably just slow you down. Its going to shut down your natural test in as little as 3 weeks. You HAVE to atleast get in a trt dose of 150-250mg test. Test is a base for all cycles. You have to have it.

Also i have a question....How old are you?

EDIT: After reading your profile it says dad/ex pro-football player. So i am guessing you are ~30's-early 40's. Test is a definate MUST if you plan on running any oral cycle. You will feel the effects of low to no natural test levels pretty fast and pretty bad.

is this something you have researched, or is it just something you read and are regurgitating? have you ever tried a cycle without test?

maverik wrote:is this something you have researched, or is it just something you read and are regurgitating? have you ever tried a cycle without test?

No...I personally havent. But i have read DK and Visions talk about running a decent cycle w/o test but after laying it all out they always say that they dont personally recommend it. Neither do I. I personally think that after his Tbol only cycle is all said and done he will have a lot more work getting back to normal in regards to his football training. Do it right or dont do it at all IMO. The fact that he is even getting tested...to me...i thinks its stupid he does anything at all.

maverik wrote:is this something you have researched, or is it just something you read and are regurgitating? have you ever tried a cycle without test?

I can tell you from my *experience* that a cycle without test is not nearly as beneficial as a cycle with test. I've done a TBOL only cycle, and the gains were minimal. A 250mg test cycle (still a very low dossage) I saw noticeable differences in weeks. There's a reason its spouted as truth on most boards....cause it is.

Take test prop.
It is in and out quicker than most testosterones except test suspension.
Test suspension is hard to find these days, plus it hurts like a bitch.
The prop is out of the body within 4-5 days.
It also keeps the water weight down.
If you are going to take an oral I would take winnie . All the track guys seem to love the stuff for some reason.
There must be a good reason behind it too.

Avoid the Winstrol. If you're playing football it'll make injuries much more likely and harder to heal. I don't see anything wrong with a low dose t-bol cycle. You could just run 20-30mg's for 4-6 weeks on and 3-4 weeks off. Just using a low dose of test by itself would also be very beneficial. If you can afford it though, using HGH sounds like it would be your best bet. It will cause slow but steady growth, it will improve your joints, it's undetectable, and it will cause more permanant changes. I think that 100mg of test cyp and 300mg of eq is great. I did it for 16 weeks and gained about 15 pounds of solid muscle. You don't have to use high amounts of these steroids to get great results. The guys on this board are correct when they say that diet and exercise are the key; that's why I don't understand why some of them suggest such high doses to newbies.