I have a question about Hcg and proviron can I run it at the end of my cycle and how long should i run it. To anyone who is on top of there game. My stats are
5'10, 255lb, 16% bf and I'm a newbie Im running just.
test enth 500/wk, 1-10
dbol,1st 4wks and 4wks at the end
deca 500wk1-10
for pct I have prov, nolva, and some hcg.

Only serious feedback!!!!

You dont run Proviron for PCT. You need to run HCG throughout the course of your cycle and not wait till you finish it. For PCT you will see in the PCT section that what most advize is Clomid 100mg ED for 4 weeks and A-sin 25mg ED for 6 weeks. Proviron is an androgen which means you will still be shutdown while running it. Also, nol alone will not allow your body to reach homeostasis. Nol will not stimulate your FSH and LH hormones.

Ive read plenty of studies that show tamoxifen (nolva) to be better than clomid with less sides. I run nolva for pct without problems unless the cycle is long then I will use HCG at the end of the cycle to kickstart things. You just cant run nolva at 20mg for 4 weeks and call it quits it must be tapered down otherwise the estrogen will shut you dawn again when you stop.

it takes 8 weeks at least to recover with any pct regimen
I recommend nolva pct like this by week 5 you should be basically recovered the rest is just to keep estrogen in check. high estrogen levels will signal receptors in the hypothalamus and shut it down.
week 1-3 40mg
week3-4 30mg
4-5 20mg
5-6 10mg
6-7 5mg
7-8 2.5mg

wrote:Ive read plenty of studies that show tamoxifen (nolva) to be better than clomid with less sides. I run nolva for pct without problems unless the cycle is long then I will use HCG at the end of the cycle to kickstart things. You just cant run nolva at 20mg for 4 weeks and call it quits it must be tapered down otherwise the estrogen will shut you dawn again when you stop.

Thanks to Visions, our PCT mod guru here, we have plenty of research and med journals in the PCT section to show that Nol doesnt work nearly as well as other Ai's like Letro or A-sin in getting the body to bounce back.Also, clomid and Nol work completely differently and are used for 2 seperate reasons.

wrote:it takes 8 weeks at least to recover with any pct regimen

There is no way you can make a general assumption like this since everyone reacts and recovers at different rates.The only way to know whether or not the PCT used actually worked is to get your bloodwork done.

MR .T wrote:Ive read plenty of studies that show tamoxifen (nolva) to be better than clomid with less sides. I run nolva for pct without problems unless the cycle is long then I will use HCG at the end of the cycle to kickstart things. You just cant run nolva at 20mg for 4 weeks and call it quits it must be tapered down otherwise the estrogen will shut you dawn again when you stop.

it takes 8 weeks at least to recover with any pct regimen
I recommend nolva pct like this by week 5 you should be basically recovered the rest is just to keep estrogen in check. high estrogen levels will signal receptors in the hypothalamus and shut it down.
week 1-3 40mg
week3-4 30mg
4-5 20mg
5-6 10mg
6-7 5mg
7-8 2.5mg

Check this out bro:

Estrogen receptor blockade with tamoxifen diminishes growth hormone secretion in boys: evidence for a stimulatory role of endogenous estrogens during male adolescence -- Metzger and Kerrigan 79 (2): 513 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metaboli

Nolva exibited no increase/change in LH or test and even lowered IGF-1 and GH.


Clomid study, notice the dose used just 25mg/day:


Clomiphene Citrate Effects on Testosterone/Estrogen Ratio in Male Hypogonadism
J Sex Med 2005;2:716–721.

ABSTRACT

Aim. Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testostosterone therapy. This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia, nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio.

Methods. Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed.

Results. The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 ± 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 ± 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4–6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 ± 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.

Conclusions. Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estadiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.

Thanks Guys This helped alot including the article posted. I think I will just do the hcg until i end the cycle; to see how my body responds being that I'm 30 years old which I fill some of our natural test levels are down hill at this point in life
once again thanks!

juju777football wrote:Thanks Guys This helped alot including the article posted. I think I willjust do the hcg until i end the cycle; to see how my body responds being thatI'm 30 years old which I fill some of our natural test levels are down hill at this point in life
once again thanks!

Right on bro, i am in my early 30's also and I feel HCG use is not optional at our age.