comradebillyboy wrote:Before my last blood test 2 months ago I was taking 200 mg test cyp per week and my test was way over the reference range and my doctor told me to cut back. I got another blood test today, so I should have results in the next week or two. I will guess that now I am in the high-normal range. My doc is not testing for LH and FSH, but since my sex drive is better than it has been in the last 15 years, I suspect those levels are ok.

Also, the test and other stuff made me feel good enough to get off of anti-depressants after 10 or 11 years on. Been off that shit for 4 months now and don't miss it at all.

One more thing on this... If your leutinizing hormone levels are shown to be depressed on a blood test, then you're well on your way to a shutdown of your natural Testosterone levels. That's why having these things included on a blood test is key.

Uzi

Uzisuicide wrote:One more thing on this... If your leutinizing hormone levels are shown to be depressed on a blood test, then you're well on your way to a shutdown of your natural Testosterone levels. That's why having these things included on a blood test is key.

Uzi

Uzi: One bro on another board (who is doing TRT) was at 200 test ew had his LH checked and he said it was essentially zero.

I'm trying to detemine if this is what others on TRT have generally found: that their LH and FSH are shut down.Maybe it's not even important, if one plans to be on TRT for life.

Visions has speculated that the body will regulate itself, so that if you're pushing 1/2 the amount of test that your body would naturally produce, then your body will decrease it's endogenous production by 1/2 . . . leaving you (essentially) at the same level you started with.

This *seems* to indicate that taking something like 75mg test per week would be relatively useless in most cases, because the end result would be the same: the body would stop producing test to the degree it needs to retain its previous levels.

The tentative conclusion from all this is that if you want to actually *increase* the amount of test in your body, this can't (over the long term) be accomplished by much other than adding the amound of exogenous Test that produces *on its own* the amount of test you want in your system.

In this case, aromasin would seem useful only to keep estrogen down . . . not as a stimulant for natural test production, since natural test production would be close to zero . . .

lire.trv

Uzisuicide wrote:Variables...
1) How long were you using the Test Cyp before the initial blood test.
2) After the first test, did you cut back or stop Testosterone usage somewhat or altogether?

When getting a blood test on TRT or any steroid use for that matter, you should always have your LH and FSH levels included in the blood test. Otherwise you're only getting half of the picture with regards to your bodie's reaction to the hormones. Please keep us posted as to the test results.

Uzi

1) 200 mg/wk 4 months, june thru october
2) cut to about 75 mg/wk

Doctor is not inclined to have me tested for those other things. She does not seem to be concerned w/ shutdown. She has prescribed test for some of her patients so she is not clueless. My natty test was in the 'normal' range so she would not give me a script. I went to an online 'anti-aging'clinic for my original script. They were interested in selling their product at a high price so they were pretty casual about blood work. Now I get the cyp from our sponsor and work with my doctor to keep healthy.

In the new year I may stop the test, do pct and then see if the aromiasin does the job for me, since my natural test levels are good for my age.

When I go back for my annual physical, I will talk to my Dr about a more complete set of hormone tests. My goal is to get my test and gh levels in the high-normal range for a man in his 20s and keep them there unless I get cancer. But my relatives all die of congestive heart failure and not cancer.

lire.trv wrote:Uzi: One bro on another board (who is doing TRT) was at 200 test ew had his LH checked and he said it was essentially zero.

I'm trying to detemine if this is what others on TRT have generally found: that their LH and FSH are shut down. Maybe it's not even important, if one plans to be on TRT for life.

Visions has speculated that the body will regulate itself, so that if you're pushing 1/2 the amount of test that your body would naturally produce, then your body will decrease it's endogenous production by 1/2 . . . leaving you (essentially) at the same level you started with.

This *seems* to indicate that taking something like 75mg test per week would be relatively useless in most cases, because the end result would be the same: the body would stop producing test to the degree it needs to retain its previous levels.

The tentative conclusion from all this is that if you want to actually *increase* the amount of test in your body, this can't (over the long term) be accomplished by much other than adding the amound of exogenous Test that produces *on its own* the amount of test you want in your system.

In this case, aromasin would seem useful only to keep estrogen down . . . not as a stimulant for natural test production, since natural test production would be close to zero . . .

lire.trv

You got the pretty much right until the end... An AI can make your body produce Test even when you are on TRT... they do it to young boys that arent growing and are far behind in their growth...The TRT helps them mature into men... the AI keeps the estrogens low so their growth plates don't shut,,, also the AI lowers the estrogen that trigger natural test production so they end up with higher test levels then TRT alone with just low normal range of estrogens...The dose of TRT they use I am unsure of... Prob 100mg a week as that is a standard dose to start with...

I am due to go to the Dr for blood work... My last blood work showed that my LH and FSH were next to zero and my test level was in the high normal range... What I will do is start myself on Aromasin until I go to the Dr and see if that triggers natural test production... be aware that I have been on TRT for years and have been shut down the entire time... by the way I feel great... My Dr may freak if it works and my test level is high, but I will explain it to him if he catches on... Another thing to consider is that my body believes my natural test level should be low and Aromasin may not lower my estrogens low enough to trigger test production at my young age of 42

Visions wrote:I am due to go to the Dr for blood work... My last blood work showed that my LH and FSH were next to zero and my test level was in the high normal range... What I will do is start myself on Aromasin until I go to the Dr and see if that triggers natural test production... be aware that I have been on TRT for years and have been shut down the entire time... by the way I feel great... My Dr may freak if it works and my test level is high, but I will explain it to him if he catches on...Another thing to consider is that my body believes my natural test level should be low and Aromasin may not lower my estrogens low enough to trigger test production at my young age of 42

Thanks, Visions, for the last two posts.They've been clear and very helpful in sorting through TRT.

You're the second TRT bro who has found that 150-200 test ew essentially shuts down LH/FSH . . . and we "risk" being shut down forever.

I put "risk" in quotes, because maybe it's not a risk at all.If we eat a healthy diet, do cardio, and practice safe and judicious use of ancillaries, having LH/FSH shut down may not pose any threat to the body.

I would like to know, though, what (if any) risks you (or others) are aware of involving LH/FSH being shut down for a long time (perhaps forever).

As a side point, it's interesting that you point out that Aromasin somehow stimulates Test production, even while LH and FSH are shut down.Do you know the physical mechanisms involved?

I have been reading that the process of endogenous Test production is significantly more complicated than just LH/FSH.So is it possible that Aromasin can stimulate natural Test production via some other mechanism than LH/FSH?

lire.trv

This has been a most interesting thread. I'm curious though...does the aromasin actually stimulate test production or does it just keep estrogen from forming, leaving you with higher levels of test since it doesn't allow aromatization to occur? If it is the latter case, then wouldn't femara do the same thing? What's the difference between the two?

Some background on me: I have been on TRT for over seven years now at 300mg/week. I don't think my doc purposely checked FSH/LH levels, but it may be on my last blood test so I'll have to look. One other note for me is that though I've been on a high dosage, my boys have not shrunk. I've used femara a few times before, but not aromasin.