I am interested in finding out what the best weight loss steroid combinations would be. I am 40, 100 pounds overweight with solid mature lower body muscle and an underdeveloped upper body due to breaking 3 vertibrea about 6 years ago. It seems to me that Primobolan and Clenbuterol are both good cutting steroids and I'd like to use them to cut my body down to 200 pound range then build muscle back up.
Anyone with experience know a good cycle and training regimen to accomplish my goals?
I also need to know if I should be using an anti-estrogen during or after cycles and how much for how long. Thanks for your help folks.

My advice is probably not what you want to hear, but its good. Stay away from AAS until you drop the bodyfat. Tren is the only AAS proven to cut away bodyfat, GH does it as well (but not an AAS). Neither of the two are meant for beginners. If you watch what you eat and stick to a clean diet, do moderate to high paced cardio 5 to 7 days a week, you will loose that fat. Clen will help you accomplish your goals, but if you don't fix the diet and don't do cardio, you'll be back to where you started in the long run. I would suggest cardio every morning (5 on 2 off) and weight training in the afternoons or evenings (5 on 2 off). Clenbuterol can be extremely dangerous if not taken correctly. You can get it in tab form or oral liquid form (there is another form as well, but not widely available.) It is dosed in micrograms, not milligrams. You take it in two week increments with a two week break. During the two week break, to maintain fat loss you would supplement with an ECA stack. Then repeat for another two weeks if necessary. Here is what a two week cycle would look like for a beginner.

40,40,60.60,80,80,100,100,80,80,60,60,40,40

This is a total of 14 days, you will split your doses. Take one dose first thing upon waking and the other later in the afternoon. Drink plenty of water, at least 1.5-2 gallons everyday. If you need advice on diet, check out Troponins Forum on diets, hes got alot of good advice.

I agree with Cannons 100%! Get your body fat under control first without drugs. Learn to eat healthy, 6meals per day with the protein evenly spread over the 6. Use protein shakes if you need to for 2 meals. One of those shakes should be within 30 minutes of your weight training.

Get all the simple carbs out of your meal plan. Keep sugars to less than 40g per day.

Make sure you get your essential fats by supplementing with flaxseed or cod liver oil.

Get up in the morining drink a glass of water and do cardio before breakfast. Once you get your body weight down some you may try to jog, but, don't kill your joints or back by doing so too soon.

I personally ride a bike to keep the punishment off of my joints. It just can't be a lazy bike ride, it is an all out fast as I can for 1 hour ride.

Thanks for the advice Cannons and EM, I've been training for 13 weeks on the Mens Health Hard-Body Plan religiously and have seen great results in losing fat but am discouraged in my upper body muscle developement. I've lost 15 kilo/33 pounds, 6 inches from my waist and alot of body fat. I've felt very discouraged because I've only increased 15 kilo/33 pounds to my benchpress (from 53 to 68 kilo - 116.6 to 149.6 actually i do 149.6 7 times. Not sure what my 1 Rep max is now.) I've never had much upper body strength and after breaking my back 8 years ago my upper body atrphied due to so much pain. I have a thick skeletal frame with broad shoulders and thick chest and the lack of any good muscle is really embarrassing. That is why I was hoping to incorporate Prima into my training so that I could add muscle while losing fat and thus increasing my metabolism at the same time.
I think one more point is pertinent to my kind of case. From the posts I've read here, most of the members are in good or great shape. I think that perhaps you might not realize how hard it is to start out being so overweight and out of shape. Dieting and training for those of us that are obese and yet yearn in our hearts to transform our bodies is much easier said than done. That is why I 'feel' that there is a need to find a middle road that helps those, like myself, that need to build muscle in order to feel a sense of accomplishment. I hope that I don't sound to much like a 'girly-man', but motivation is a very real and crucial factor in any endeavor. Hope seems almost out of reach sometimes when I look in the mirror and see that obese creature. Your advice is sound guys and I appreciate it all VERY much. I'll probly follow it to the letter but it's a bitter pill to swallow.

First of all congrats on the fat loss!! That is about the perfect rate of loss too, to prevent canablism of the muscle. Just make sure you are eating your protein and not starving yourself, otherwise the muscle you do have will be going out with the fat.

You are gaining strength, while losing weight. That is a difficult feat in itself. No matter how hard I try, when I lose weight, I lose strength on my compound movements, such as bench.

You've increased your bench 33 lbs in 13 weeks, if I do that in the next year I will be happy. Besides anabolics are only going to strengthen the muscle, not the joints, tendons, or connective tissue. If you gain strength much faster I think you could be heading for a problem.

An injury right now would really set you back!

We all want to change our bodies and we want it now. I think you will also find that most everyone on here has been out of shape at some point. I know that I have been.

Knowledge and the drive to never give up and go back will get you through and bring your goals to you. Never stop learning, and never give up, and you will succeed.

I appreciate that EM. I've just sat down with myself today and pinpointed my weak points: FATLOSS due to too little aerobics and too many calories, Chest/Lats/shoulders/bi's/tri's due to just being new I think - and old? LOL. I've decided to take the advice ya'll've given and do cardio 4 days and train 3. I am getting hitched in Hawaii in Jan and want to be able to take my shirt off...something I've been too ashamed to do for more than 3 decades. I know that 4 months is a tight schedule but I've been know to do things only one way: MINE. I've felt really disapointed by my results this past 3 months but I guess I'll have to count it as DUES on an education in the School Of Hard Knocks: Iron Department. Know that I've graphed my weight, loads and see my results I realize that it's time to get off the porch and into the yard with the BIG DOGS. There's gonna be some blood shed but as Schwarzenegger (the philosopher) said, 'That which does not kill me, makes me stronger!'. Words that Arnold lived by as well. I'm gonna try that Clen cycle while dieting and will start increasing my weights wether or not my body likes it.
As for suppliments the only good thing about starting Bodybuilding at 40 is that I can afford all the goodies: L-Carnitine, glutamine, protein powder, multivitamines, coral calcium (NOW company makes the best vitamines available at bodybuilding.com) and others. I'm going down to Golds tomorrow and seeing about getting a membership where the BIG DOGS play. Would always appreciate any and all advice from you guys.
WOOF!

one other thing you might want to try before jumping into using clen, is to get yourself a fat burner from the local vitamin shop. ripped fuel is a very good product and much safer to use than clen and will definatly speed up the fat burning process for you.
when i started weight training i was at 27% bodyfat, swo yes alot of us have been heavy and out of shape at one point in our lives.
you are on the right track and making very good progress so far so i wouldnt tinker with your plan to much, just fine tune it a little. pin

Bumpin Pin and EM!

I totally agree with the caffene, ephedrine, asprin, stack 110%!
I think that you will be pleasantly suprised with the amount of fat loss you will achieve with that plus cardio, and not the AAS. Like they said, get up in the morning, take the ECA stack, wait a little while, and then do your cardio. You will definetly feel the ECA stack give you a great boost of energy.
Good luck and congrats on the progress you have made.
MGeorge

Wow! Thanks for all the advice guys! I'm starting the ECA stac and will keep my results/progress posted. A VERY nice thing happened today. Gold's Gym opened it's first Gym in my town! I sped down to the grand opening, saw all the big dogs and doggettes and signed on the dotted line! No more waiting for some 87 year old to squeeze out 3 reps with horrible and dangerous form to finish using the benchpress machine. Gone are the days of the glazed expressions of the staff when I ask questions like, 'What should I do to hit my rear delts and build up my lats and upper pecs?'. Walked in and was overwhelmed with the staff, facility and the equipment. Am M O T I V A T E D! Cannot wait to 'GET SWEAT'.
From June 16th to Sept 1st i went from 41% BF to 35.6%. I think that my goals will be to go from 35.6% to 30%- before the end of November? I weigh 145 kilo, that would be about 13 kilo/28 pounds? (math/needles/spiders/ex-wife = intense and needless pain) Would that be too much in 6 weeks? I'm taking all the suppliments including: BCAA, glutamine, creatine, multi, milkthistle, E1000, C1000, carnitine, arganine, lysine, cayenne, systine, NITRIX, DIETTECH and 6OXO. Will start suppliments for liver soon as well. Will keep Carbs under 40. Think that might work? Feedback please. If knowledge is power I'm still a 45 pound weakling when it comes to BBing.

Cannons wrote:My advice is probably not what you want to hear, but its good.  Stay away from AAS until you drop the bodyfat.  Tren is the only AAS proven to cut away bodyfat, GH does it as well (but not an AAS).  Neither of the two are meant for beginners.   If you watch what you eat and stick to a clean diet, do moderate to high paced cardio 5 to 7 days a week, you will loose that fat.  Clen will help you accomplish your goals, but if you don't fix the diet and don't do cardio, you'll be back to where you started in the long run.  I would suggest cardio every morning (5 on 2 off) and weight training in the afternoons or evenings (5 on 2 off).  Clenbuterol can be extremely dangerous if not taken correctly.  You can get it in tab form or oral liquid form (there is another form as well, but not widely available.)  It is dosed in micrograms, not milligrams.  You take it in two week increments with a two week break.  During the two week break, to maintain fat loss you would supplement with an ECA stack.  Then repeat for another two weeks if necessary.  Here is what a two week cycle would look like for a beginner.

40,40,60.60,80,80,100,100,80,80,60,60,40,40

This is a total of 14 days, you will split your doses.  Take one dose first thing upon waking and the other later in the afternoon.  Drink plenty of water, at least 1.5-2 gallons everyday.  If you need advice on diet, check out Troponins Forum on diets, hes got alot of good advice.

spot on mate

If you do good with diet and cardio and only want to take the juice for some extra kick, you can try peptides. Get some shots of HGH Fragment 176-191 before the cardio, and it will help you a lot.

Stay away from clen, dnp.. Try some black coffee, lcarnitine, caffeine tablets maybe ECA (as Cannons write) Diet and cardio does the trick..